Little Drops Of Water & Application of Water

FOG ATTACK

So when is it a good idea to use a Fog Attack or a Combination Attack? When should we set our Fog Nozzle on a fog pattern? When Should we set our Fog/combination nozzle on straight stream? Do we push fire and if so; when? Does the setting of the nozzle effect te ability to push fire? Is there ever a time we would want to push fire? When is it ok to apply water from the outside? BE BRAVE and post your thoughts. Share your opinion for all to see. Check Out  www.firefighterrescues.com sign up for email notification of New Post at bottom of Home Page.

6 thoughts on “Little Drops Of Water & Application of Water

  1. Do fire streams “push” fire? According to the science? No, the fog entrains air and creates a pressure that pushes the gasses and smoke. Fine, but isn’t the result nearly the same? If the gasses and heat being moved by this pressure front are not sufficiently cooled before reaching ignition temperature, say on the other side of a doorway, then the result is the same. The fire moved. A flashover creates enough energy to initiate a flashover in another room, provided it is properly charged with smoke and gasses. So are “smoke explosions” seen on youtube a series of stacked flashovers from room of origin to the flowpath inlet? Who Cares? The result is the same, runaway oxidation in the modern fire environment.

    Interior fire operations where the crew is not isolated from the fire room should keep their combination nozzles on straight stream to entrain as little air as possible while providing cooling to gasses and fuels. Transitional type attacks on rooms of origin or flow path inlets I believe still are better served with narrow streams directed to the ceiling to maximize the cooling of gasses while excess rain-down positively affects fuel packages.

    Or I’m wrong. I also like black over red fire apparatus, traditional leather helmets, and mechanical Federal Q’s, if anyone wants to fight about that.

    • Tim- I think that you are exactly right. We need to apply water directly to the fire as quickly as possible, No matter the location. “Attack from the burned side”- Its basis is the same as “Put water on fire”. We as officers have been taught in previous years to attack from the UNburned side. That’s a bunch of crap! Let’s teach our people to rapidly deploy lines and put water on the fire as quickly as possible. There is an education piece for our first due officers too. Just because there is a Large amount of flame doesn’t mean that its a large fire load. It’s just a light show! The materials that newer construction are built from have huge energy releases of flame and heat but go out quickly with a small amount of water. Keep an eye out for new releases from the UL. I have a feeling that you will start to see some of this stuff.

      http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/lifesafetyandsecurity/firefighter-safety-research-institute/

      • We must continually ask ourselves the question, why are we inside? We are inside because of them! Them being the citizens. We are interior because there is a salvageable victim/s or there is a chance there is a victim/s inside.

        We don’t push fire but we sure move the hell out of gases and heat. We must focus on protecting the interior exposures it the call is a “go”. Interior exposures are any room/s that could continue a salvageable life. That being said, we know the effects of a fog stream (30 or 60 degree) pattern used in a superheated atmosphere. The tactic of a short burst coverts the 1-2 gallons to steam and it makes an already semi-tenable/un tenable atmosphere into a place where a firefighter wearing full ppe rethink his attack disposition.

        If the fire has extended passed the seat, and turned into a structure fire we need to try and push the heat and gas back to the seat with indirect attack and then use a direct attack on the seat. A straight/ solid stream when used properly can not only cool more efficiently and take the heat leg out of the fire triangle but it can move those gases and in turn protect any victims without causing a major disturbance in the thermal column.

        Use the nozzle in a inverted U to cool the ceiling, both walls and every so often the floor. When the nozzle is open and flowing we should be moving it non-stop. This movement actually entrains a major amount of airflow with your water stream. This is what we want, we want to cool and clear the interior atmosphere first for us and secondly for the unprotected life inside.

        One additional advantage to using the straight stream pattern over the fog is we do not have to be on top of the fire to cool it. A straight stream will reach 20 feet under extreme interior fire atmosphere whereas a fog has a reach of 8 feet under the same conditions.

      • Sean Gray
        Beautiful words! I couldn’t agree more! I recently helped fight a garage fire, 3 car garage attached to a mansion, visible fire on arrival. My company was part of the mutual aid. The 1st due companies Chief ordered us to take a line in through the front door of the house and turn left, the garage was the A/B corner. The problem with this tactic, in my opinion, was that it would have wasted precious time because of the distance needed to go. The house was nearly 5000 sq ft, and there was no way to get our engine in a closer position to shorten down the length of hose we’d need. We would have had to pull nearly 500 ft of 3 inch alley line just to make the front door, then travel 300 ft or so thru the interior of the home. Just to be able to make an initial attack on the garage from the inside of the home. I strongly felt this would be counter productive to the cause, and we’d actually run a better chance of having the fire extend, rather then make a knock on it from outside and open up the roof ASAP. I voiced my concerns to the Chief, and after initially arguing with me because I hold a lower rank than him, he ended up agreeing with me. The fire turned out to only be in one corner of the garage and we were able to save most of the garage and 100% of the house. ….you are absolutely correct, water on the fire ASAP, deploy pre-connected hose with one man, and get to work.

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