WHY are so many FIREFIGHTERS totally against/closed minded towards the SOLID STREAM? I love BOTH!! I like options!! I like to have the chose based on fire conditions and extinguishment needs. SOLID STREAMS/SMOOTH-BORE nozzles have been proven to be very reliable and effective on the fire ground for longer than anyone still involved in fighting fires. So study history and have options!!!!!!! SORRY there is no DEBATE.
Choosing Between Smoothbore and Fog Nozzles: Key Considerations
When selecting a nozzle for interior firefighting, the choice between a smoothbore and a fog nozzle can significantly impact performance and safety. Here are the core arguments for each option:
Advantages of Smoothbore Nozzles
- Penetration and Reach: Smoothbore nozzles are renowned for their ability to deliver a concentrated stream of water with impressive penetration and distance. This feature is critical for reaching the seat of the fire quickly, especially in environments where high pressure is required.
- Consistent Flow Rate: They provide a stable Gallons Per Minute (GPM) output, which can be crucial in ensuring an effective and steady firefighting effort.
- Lower Operating Pressure: These nozzles generally require less pressure to operate efficiently, reducing nozzle reaction and making it easier for firefighters to handle the hose.
Advantages of Fog Nozzles
- Versatility: Fog nozzles offer a range of spray patterns, from a narrow straight stream to a wide fog. This adaptability allows firefighters to adjust the output based on the immediate needs of the situation, such as indirect attack or rapid heat absorption.
- Cooling and Protection: The wide spray pattern of a fog nozzle can absorb heat rapidly and provide a cooling shield for firefighters, especially when operated in confined spaces.
- Gas Entrainment: By generating a fog pattern, these nozzles can entrain significant volumes of gases, potentially pushing smoke and combustion products away from advancing hose lines.
Considerations and Challenges
- Steam Production: While the fog pattern can be beneficial, it can also generate large amounts of steam, which might pose hazards in poorly ventilated areas or if crew members become surrounded by steam.
- Situational Dependency: The best choice often depends on specific fire conditions. For example, a confined space might benefit from the cooling effect of a fog pattern, provided that ventilation is adequate to manage steam.
- Combination Options: Some modern nozzles offer combination features, allowing firefighters to switch between fog and smoothbore settings. This flexibility can be invaluable in dynamic fire situations.
Ultimately, the decision between a smoothbore and a fog nozzle should be guided by the tactical requirements of the situation, the experience of the crew, and the specifics of the structure and fire behavior.
The Crucial Role of Knowledge in Firefighting: A Guide for Young Firefighters
Understanding the variety of nozzles available is fundamental for young or inexperienced firefighters. Here’s why diving deeper into this knowledge is crucial:
- Adaptability in Diverse Situations
Fire scenarios vary significantly, and the nozzle you choose can dramatically affect the outcome. Knowing about different types empowers a firefighter to adapt quickly to unexpected challenges, deploying the most effective tools when seconds matter. - Broadening Tactical Skills
Different nozzles offer varied flow rates and spray patterns. By familiarizing yourself with these options, you enhance your tactical skill set. This means being able to control fires more effectively and efficiently, potentially saving more lives and property. - Enhanced Safety Measures
An understanding of nozzle mechanics and capabilities can lead to safer firefighting practices. Knowing how each type functions allows you to anticipate problems before they arise, ensuring that both you and your team operate in the safest possible manner. - Professional Growth and Leadership
Comprehensive knowledge beyond agency standards sets a solid foundation for leadership opportunities. When you can make informed decisions about equipment and tactics, you stand out as a knowledgeable professional, ready to guide and educate others. - Personal Confidence and Initiative
Having the technical know-how about a wide range of firefighting tools instills confidence in your abilities. This proactive learning approach demonstrates initiative, showing that you are not just reliant on habitual agency practices but are committed to personal development and improvement.
By seeking out knowledge beyond what is immediately required or available through your current agency, you prepare yourself for a more successful and adaptable firefighting career. This continuous learning approach aligns with the ultimate goal of every firefighter: saving lives and serving your community with excellence.
Understanding the Impact of Nozzle Choice on Standpipe Operations
When it comes to standpipe operations, the selection of the right nozzle is crucial for both safety and efficiency. Each fire department, whether large or small, faces unique challenges and conditions that influence their equipment choices. What works effectively in one region might not be suitable in another. Here’s how nozzle selection can significantly impact these operations:
1. Safety Considerations
- Pressure and Control: Nozzles that require higher operating pressure can be difficult to manage, leading to potential safety risks. For instance, maintaining control over a 1.75” hose with a 100 psi fog nozzle can be challenging, especially under duress in high-pressure situations.
- Compatibility with Hose: The right nozzle ensures a stable connection and smooth operation. Mismatched equipment can lead to hose whipping or a lack of directional control, putting firefighters at risk.
2. Efficiency in Water Delivery
- Flow Rate: Different nozzles provide varying flow rates. Choosing a nozzle that optimizes flow for the specific building or fire size ensures that water is delivered effectively and promptly, minimizing damage and controlling the fire more efficiently.
- Stream Patterns: Adjustability in the nozzle’s stream pattern—from fog to straight stream—can enhance the effectiveness of water delivery, enabling firefighters to adapt to changing fire dynamics quickly.
3. Operational Flexibility
- Ease of Use: Some departments rely on older, familiar nozzles that align with their standard operating procedures, even if they aren’t the most efficient. By experimenting with modern nozzles designed for today’s challenges, fire departments can improve adaptability on the scene.
- Cultural Adaptation: Many departments develop a preference based on historical use and training. However, examining current evidence and being open to modern nozzle options can lead to adopting practices that improve overall safety and effectiveness.
Fire Engineering has some excellent articles on drops of water. The authors actually did scientific experiments. The results showed that during an interior attack, the drops from a smoothbore (SB) actually made it through the fire gases as they fell and cooled the solid burning fuels. The water drops from a fog on a straight stream were smaller than those of a SB and were consumed in the upper gas area, not making it down to the burning solid fuels to stop the production of more heat/fire gases that kill and will cause the interior to continue to burn.
Myths and Misconceptions
There are several myths about smoothbore versus fog nozzles that need addressing. One such misconception is that penetration and distance are different factors; however, they are essentially the same. The straight stream from a properly adjusted fog nozzle is only marginally less effective than a comparable solid stream from a smoothbore.
When it comes to GPM and pressure, it’s crucial to compare apples to apples. Make sure to choose the right nozzle for the job by understanding these metrics in context.
Personal Preferences and Practical Use
I LIKE BOTH. But, if I am stretching for an interior attack, I would prefer a SB backed up by a fog. If stretching for exterior work, I would prefer fog. I can tell a difference between the two when operating inside with high heat conditions. The SB causes less upper steam and gives a fast knockdown. Fog requires the windshield wipers on the mask and heat conditions do rise more so than that of a SB.
In the end, they both are excellent nozzles if they are flowing more than the BTUs being produced.
However the deal with using said nozzle is DISCIPLINE! The nozzleman has to keep it on straight stream during operations 98% of the time. That is the rub and I see it all the time is the 3/4 fog attack nonsense. Bad nozzle discipline has given us fog dogs a bad name!!! BTW the FOG nozzles place is on the 1 3/4 ONLY…STOP USING IT ON BIGGER LINES AND MASTER STREAMS!
Now, let’s dive deeper into why this discipline is so critical. Fog nozzles offer versatility, allowing you to switch between direct and indirect attack strategies. This flexibility can be crucial in pushing fire and combustion products away from your advance. Yet, this adaptability comes with its own set of challenges.
Advantages of Fog Nozzles
- Steam Generation: In confined spaces, fog nozzles create steam, which can suppress fire effectively. However, this is only beneficial if the area is clear of unprepared firefighters or victims.
- Gas Entrainment: These nozzles can entrain around 5,000 cubic feet of gases per minute into the stream, aiding in controlling the fire under the right circumstances.
Disadvantages to Consider
- Positioning Hazards: Using a fog pattern when above or between the fire and the ventilation point is risky. This can lead to steam being forced back over the crew, increasing the danger.
- Heat and Condensation: The steam generated condenses upon anything cooler than 212°F, including you and your gear, bringing 970 BTUs per pound back onto the crew. This can lead to burns and other heat-related injuries if not managed properly.
In essence, while fog nozzles are powerful tools, their proper use hinges on strict discipline and understanding of their inherent risks and benefits.
Conclusion
Ultimately, the effectiveness of standpipe operations hinges on selecting the right combination of hose and nozzle. Fire departments are encouraged to assess their specific needs and consider new technologies and methodologies. By doing so, they can ensure that their choices promote not just tradition but enhanced safety and operational efficiency.


Of course there is a debate:) But I agree that both tools have their applications!
Must be straight stream or smooth bore! 150 gpm or better ( smooth bore 180 gpm 🙂 ). This topic brings such a debate to the table yet this post has been here for two days and only two comments. I want to hear some fog advicates! Come on sell it to me.
At our department B-shift (my bros shift and I’m sure he will chime in about the SB) conducted a test to put this debate to rest and of course it was highly scientific and comprehensive…Anyhow they put both nozzles 150 @ 50( Newer Elkhart low pressure fog nozzles/ pons hose -plug for Mac here) and SB side by side and took measurements, checked accuracy, conducted in depth analysis on effectiveness of both. There were die hard folks on both sides. What eventually came out was the stream shape was a little better with the SB. The distance=same and the volume=same(at same pressures).
So my take is and always has been, is to use FOG. Reason being it gives you some versatility for hydrolic vent, exposure protection, etc. HOWEVER the deal with using said nozzle is DISCIPLINE! The nozzleman has to keep it on straight stream during operations 98% of the time. That is the rub and I see it all the time is the 3/4 fog attack nonsense. Bad nozzle discipline has given us fog dogs a bad name!!! BTW the FOG nozzles place is on the 1 3/4 ONLY…STOP USING IT ON BIGGER LINES AND MASTER STREAMS!
Solid bore has its place with deep seated fires and tradition…
That’s my 2 cents
Fire ENgineering has some excellent articles on drops of water. The authors actually did scientific experiments. The results showed that during an interior attack the drops from a sb actually made it through the fire gases as they fell and cooled the solid burning fuels. The water drops from a fog on a straight stream were smaller than that of a SB and were consumed in the upper gas area and did not make down to the burning solids fuels to stop, stop, stop, stop, the production of more heat/fire gases that kill and will cause the interior to continue to burn. I LIKE BOTH. But, if I am stretching for a interior attack I would prefer a SB backed up by a FOG. If stretching for exterior work would prefer Fog. I can tell a difference between the two when operating inside with high heat conditions. The SB causes less upper steam and gives fast knock dowm. Fog requires the windshield wipers on the mask and heat conditions do rise more so than that of a SB. In the end they both are excellent nozzles if they are flowing more than the BTUs being produced.
@DJ- i fully agree it is the proper use of the given stream that affects the fire and it’s gases.
the new break apart nozzles are the best of both worlds. smooth bore when broken apart and the ability to change to a fog or straight stream with it in tact.
the bad part i see mostly with the fog, on a fog type pattern, is the air movement. moving the super heated gases from top to all around. thankfully we have modern up to date technology that proves the point that wet stuff on the red stuff is what truly works. High GPM overcomes BTU’s plain and simple.
@ Ike- i do also like the SB attack with fog backup, and like DJ noted, with the backup line in place, you can move the back up fog in to fully hydraulically ventilate IF needed (roof ops or fan).
I am sure we all agree too that each has its place on the fire ground, and should Both be trained on for the mastery of our craft.
Great feedback…gotta say, I agree with it all. We used to run 2 pre-connects (1 3/4) one with SB & the other with FOG 50/150 LP. Both were set up at 200 ft. We had orginally went to SB nozzles in the late 90’s because we could get so much more GPM and better stream as opposed to the older FOG nozzles (SB at about 165-175 GPM compared to the old fog at about 96 GPM). Back then it was no a no brainer…like Joel said, GPM puts out BTUs. However, over the last year we made an adjustment & removed the SB off the first out 1 3/4 pre-connect for not only the reason DJ mentioned (ya, the informal tests surpised up too) but just as important, to change the length of one of the pro-connects to 150 ft. The areas we run can often be right on top of each other & managing an additional 50 ft sometimes makes it difficult (removing one of Murphys dominos)….escpecially if you only need 100 ft. So our thought was by changing the length of the pro-connects (like we had them prior to the first change in the late 90’s) & by adding the PONS with LP 150/150 nozzles, we would give ourselves (Fort Walton Bch FD) more versitility….it works for us here but may not be the best for other places. Moral of the story….find out what works best in your area & apply it through training and listing to other who have done it. Also, great point by Chief Ike refering to the FIRE ENGINEERING articles… I like it. I’m on record as saying I’m a SB guy but the 1 3/4 LP Fog works best for us…..although nothing but SB on the 2 1/2 & larger…Like DJ said, its a no brainer. Good stuff!!
ffstoney
We are doing some test, individually, with the flat load. 300-350 ft racked on the pre-connect and you pull what you need then hook into the discharge. This actually possibly could give you your attack line and back up line from the same load, just add nozzle. And if you practice your stretches, you can actually have your 50 at the door with minimal delay. On a triple lay 200 ft you are almost committed to use all 200 even though your longest stretch needed is 100-150 ft. Jasionowski
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