- What are the Pros and Cons of the Driver wearing bunker gear?
Do you think Drivers should gear up?
Check out this link guys http://www.cbs12.com/video/c/1143359274/local-news/1251402120001/wpec-localnews
Palm Beach County last weekend gets dispatched to a power pole explosion. Single 3 man Engine Company arrives on scene with house on fire and four civilians trapped. Watch the video they had to gear up and then go make the grabs. No other companies on scene. They did it! Great Job Palm Beach County. This goes to show always be ready. On my watch where I work, it is a rule on ALL FIRE CALLS wear your gear. We have had companies multiple times over the years dispatched to smoke in the area and arrive with a working house fire.
In this day of less manpower, absolutely. Most firemen on my job at least wear their pants and then finish dressing on scene. many will drive in full gear. There are times when the unexpected (or expected) happens and our drivers get put in positions where gear is necessary.
you never know where your help is gonna come from…sometimes you gotta do whatcha gotta do…can you say 3-man companies…in this case get help where you can find it, especially if you are by yourself in the sticks…E14 “C” doin’ it off duty as well as on duty…good job TK
If the driver is already wearing gear and a trained pump operator shows up, pass the panel over. I use to wear gear as a driver when I worked in Pensacola and when another driver showed up that would take it. What do think I did? YES, I went an engaged in the fight.
absolutely…this is a great example of why you should be geared up when you drive…have everything on except your jacket and helmet for safe operation of the apparatus…then once water is established you have a greater chance of being utilized inside or on the extrication scene…and if you drive safely (slower) to calls instead of being second due and working as a pump jockey, you can be third or fourth and gear up as soon as you arrive and be part of the crew that initiates an aggressive search or interior attack or ventialtion..not that that has ever happened…first is not always fastest
Firemen without gear are like Batman without the utility belt. I mean most Firefighters are Firefighters on duty/off duty, day/night, asleep/awake, but without gear and tools, their abilities are limited. Batman may still be able to take out bad guys with unparalleled martial arts moves, or know how to best engage the bad guys with his superior intellect, but without the gadgets in the utility belt, he can not achieve full super hero potential. So, firemen not equiped with gear and all the gadgets held within all those pockets, and without the most important hand tools (Irons & hook), may know what needs to be done at a fire, but will not be able to efficiently and effectively engage. And like Batman’s (superior intellect) being how and when to use those gadgets and hand tools, Firefighters need to be sharp with their skills in order to use their tools to be at full potential when working at a fire.
Ok so I’m gonna catch a rash of sheet from all you pensacola fire conference attenders out there( BTW, I signed up yesterday) but a good conversation always has an opposing view point. I see and agree with everything that has been said no doubt….HOWEVER a few things to consider-
I will limit my perspective to 1st due assignment D/E’s, 2nd 3rd 4th it’s obviously a good idea to be ready to work
Every FD doesn’t it a little different according to manning culture etc. Where I work I have never seen a driver be utilized past pump operations. We typically have 9 FF’s + BC on scene within 3 minutes of initial alarm & manning is not an issue(thank God)
1) We do not have the luxury of leaving the D/E position to join our crew, for us this would confuse our in place accountability system and we would probably get our d****s smacked by command (We have a mutual aid help on every fire) good idea?….sure! But trying to get mutual aid fire chiefs to agree on anything would be a miracle!
2) At no point would the assigned driver EVER enter the building and begin work in the event of an emergency. Our discipline is the pump and outside work. That’s not to say it could never happen and that drivers are not available to step inside a door or the edge of a minor collapse and pull a brother to safety…But I have seen drivers vent windows(with 2 X 4’s lol), secure doors, throw ladders etc. without gear on. I like a jacket helmet & gloves as an option
3) For me it’s a mobility/agility issue (I know a training one too!) I like the ability to move fast up and down all around my truck to get the job done( I drive the ladder). Most of the time my bulky pants get in the way. It’s shaving seconds but as we know those add up to minutes.
4) don’t hate me cause I’m beautiful
I like the ideas presented and I’m not saying never wear your gear or be lazy. Just justifying probabilities of why the most FF’s maybe are not gearing up on the 1st due!
I LIKE IT! You asked for the post. Good Stuff.
Check out this link guys http://www.cbs12.com/video/c/1143359274/local-news/1251402120001/wpec-localnews
Palm Beach County last weekend gets dispatched to a power pole explosion. Single 3 man Engine Company arrives on scene with house on fire and four civilians trapped. Watch the video they had to gear up and then go make the grabs. No other companies on scene. They did it! Great Job Palm Beach County. This goes to show always be ready. On my watch in Escambia it is a rule on ALL FIRE CALLS wear your gear. We have had companies multiple times over the years dispatched to smoke in the area and arrive with a working house fire.
I’m also gonna have to say no on first in drivers. My dept issued leathers at large clunky haix boots and in my short time of driving especially our ladder truck it’s hard to get a good feel of the apparatus thru my boots and also it has just been a part of my training from some old crusty officers that “you will not ware your gear while driving especially bunker boots so you don’t end up FUBARing the peddles” as for the person who showed up to take over the pump from you….. Idk sounds like that may need to be a face to face with command so he knows, but maybe it just depends on who the BC is. I don’t agree with a paramedic on a rig who’s driver qualified to take over simply because you better hope you don’t end up with a fire victim patient or even a firefighter as a patient if he’s the only ambulance on scene just seems like a good way to get yourself hosed!! Most fires down here in south OKIE DOKIE county only get one ambulance.
I’m a long time driver but my mind set is very different than most. I ALWAYS WEAR MY GEAR. I wear my gear because without it I’m a civilian with a great view. I know this may sound silly to some of you, but I even wear an air pak on some calls.
My reasoning is simple, no one, that is not in full gear, should go near a building that is on fire while we are working, period, no excuses.
My department has a history of the lazy slow ass career slug at the pump, wearing his ball cap backwards, pants on, with his suspenders hanging … I’m not that guy. I am very busy when I do pump a fire, and I take great pride in doing my thing without being told when it is needed. I have to make water, set my pressures, throw ladders (know where/when/and why), monitor conditions and the radio, fans to set up/start/ and leave at the proper opening out of the way and facing away from the building, I am also OVM, and if you have to be downwind when that is called for you better be ready to jump … if your not, move the fuck over and let someone more prepared do the job. I’m not aggressive, I just take great pride in knowing my job.
This is not a game, it is not for the lazy, or the uneducated, or the guy/gal looking for a job with benefits. A great man, and friend is quoted as saying “The building is the enemy, know your enemy”. My job is more than “riding the pump panel”, my job is building construction, fire behavior, to be physically and mentally fit, to anticipate accordingly, to follow orders, and to wear my fucking gear, because if I don’t I will not be prepared for what ever I may have to do. Never forget your place, your a fireman first, everything else is secondary.
On a lighter note, I love this topic Curt … I know these guys don’t know me, so I don’t expect them to get me … I am appealing to those of you who are younger, newer in our great profession. Careful how you train, because it will be how you fight fire. As Paul Capo would say, train your mid brain properly so that it reacts properly … truth is firemen do not rise to the occasion, we default to our level of training. Little by slowly we have been changing the culture in my department, and I am proud of the men and women I serve with, and I love the brotherhood, but I will not pull punches when it comes to our job … so … put your fucking gear on, and shut your fucking pie hole … and I mean that with all the love in the world.
RIC- Any video that is mine is yours!!!! I will pay you later. Drinks on me in Orlando and FDIC. You have made my day. GOOD SHIT!! Sorry DJ-I will introduce you to Ric in Orlando. This is going to be AWESOME>>>
Lol well I better shut my pie hole!!! j/k Good stuff Ric I think you’re speaking to the choir here. Don’t mistake opinion style and preference with apathy and laziness though! I see the good ole boy goofball stuff around here and its frustrating to me too. I guess
that’s a good reason to promote and change how things get done! I just figured I would get some you all fired up…I can hear Ike laughing all the way over here ….
Come on bro, you know I’m an easy date, I drink soda! How about dinner with Sven and DJ.
DJ, looking forward to meeting you, and I feel you bro.
Sven my Nortic friend! lol, I’ll be seeing all yall in O-town, we got lots of lies to catch up on.
Love the Rant Ric ! I wear my gear when driving also, goes back to the days when we had no staffing and all companies were just an officer and FF…..we did alot of Firefighting back in those days! As for the having the Clunky Haix boots???????? Seriously they are way better than the old rubber boots we used….atleast they fit right! Good Topic Brothers, Hope to see you in Orlando again this year !
Expect rescues. First in driver in rescue mode = pumping, pulling lines, ground ladders, softening, operating in the “warm zone” if you will. So pretty please, with sugar on top, put your fuggin gear on.
Irony seems to be the best teacher for the fire service. Ironicly tonight we catch a job, residential, multiple calls, several callers confirm victim trapped in the house. Rolling down the street, the unmistakable calling card of a working fire is swallowing the street with it’s smoke. We roll in and my Captain and the ff, along with the recue go into VES mode. Do I have my gear on? Bet your sweet ass I do, and I have an air pak on … as I stretch the line for the second due the smoke covers the whole street. Doesn’t bother me, cause I just put my mask on, click in, and wha la I charge the line, go to the nob as I am joined with the other crew, their driver taking the panel … result …. a solid grab, a save, fire out in a very timely manner, no one hurt, and I live to talk more shit about our governor.
Our gear is our insurance that we do not only what we are expected to do, but we are prepared for the unexpected too. Stay strong and stay low brothers.
I am headed North today to home of the COLD. The cold will not bother me as I think about another SAVE in Pam Beach County. GREAT JOB GUYS. I think the post has been answered. No more debate. I will be back on Sunday. Unless I get time in the hotel room.
use this quote from Louis Pasteur: Chance favors only the prepared and equipped…
Love it! Experience is always the best teacher. Good quote B
Here is a con to driving while wearing gear. Sometimes the trucks ( like the one I drive ) have the acelerator and the brake pedal close together. I have found myself hitting both pedals at times due to the wide boots. I prefer to get dressed at the scene. The crew on the other hand should dress prior to or while responding. I am not saying there is no situation that requires the driver to be dressed on arrival, but for the most part the 30 seconds it takes shouldn’t be an issue.
I work for a department that staff’s 4 personnel on engines and truck companies. We are not mandated to wear turn-out gear as driver’s and therefore I as most of our driver’s do not. I should clarify that comment by saying that I do not wear gear when driving the engine. I am not utilized for any interior operations and by not wearing gear It makes it a lot easier for moving around the apparatus, climbing on top for equipment, and much easier to drive, especially with the newer apparatus with tight leg room in the front of the cabs. When in the tiller position I fully gear up except for BA. When driving the front of the truck I don my turn-out pants before climbing in the cab.
gear while driving is a non-debatable issue (see above post)however, for arguments sake…I like the post from Ryan Cox…EXPECTEXPECTEXPECT…be ready for anything, anytime, anywhere…pants while driving, traintraintrain…pedals are big, boots are big…arrange your pockets so you can be comfortable…watch the vid where the car explodes in LA…who is going to be close enough to grab those who are knocked loopy by the explosion…the driver may be the only one…help us Obi-Wan you’re our only hope…btw Chief Ike we’ll post pics of our save later today…
Great stuff….love the feedback! and comical too! If everyone was hired on at your department & the standard was to wear your gear as a driver…..would we even be talking about it? Most likely not,…..because if thats all you ever done, then thats the culture you grew up in & you likely would not think twice about it. My department does not require it (ya, I’ve heard the boot thing, gear thing gets in the way….really?), but we should. Ask the good old stand by; Why wouldnt you? I have yet to hear a good reason not to wear at least your pants. Anyway, great posts…totally enjoy reading them! Stay safe brothas!
AMEN Ric!!
Yes they should on the west coast the Engineer is part of the IRIC. We only put our bunkers on but once we get there we get our coats on and have BA ready.
Driving engines for 18 years. I drive in full turn outs. Never had a problem with “the feel of my rig” or “FUBARING the pedals.” Yes, assignment #1 is to get water to the lines but you are also a line of defense for those first arriving crews. You need to show up ready to perform.