Does a Smooth-bore cause water damage? Does a FOG on a WIDE FOG push Fire?
WHY are so many FIREFIGHTERS totally against/closed minded towards the SOLID STREAM? I love BOTH!! I like options!! I like to have the chose based on fire conditions and extinguishment needs. SOLID STREAMS/SMOOTH-BORE nozzles have been proven to be very reliable and effective on the fire ground for longer than anyone still involved in fighting fires. So study history and have options!!!!!!! SORRY there is no DEBATE.
Of course there is a debate:) But I agree that both tools have their applications!
Must be straight stream or smooth bore! 150 gpm or better ( smooth bore 180 gpm 🙂 ). This topic brings such a debate to the table yet this post has been here for two days and only two comments. I want to hear some fog advicates! Come on sell it to me.
At our department B-shift (my bros shift and I’m sure he will chime in about the SB) conducted a test to put this debate to rest and of course it was highly scientific and comprehensive…Anyhow they put both nozzles 150 @ 50( Newer Elkhart low pressure fog nozzles/ pons hose -plug for Mac here) and SB side by side and took measurements, checked accuracy, conducted in depth analysis on effectiveness of both. There were die hard folks on both sides. What eventually came out was the stream shape was a little better with the SB. The distance=same and the volume=same(at same pressures).
So my take is and always has been, is to use FOG. Reason being it gives you some versatility for hydrolic vent, exposure protection, etc. HOWEVER the deal with using said nozzle is DISCIPLINE! The nozzleman has to keep it on straight stream during operations 98% of the time. That is the rub and I see it all the time is the 3/4 fog attack nonsense. Bad nozzle discipline has given us fog dogs a bad name!!! BTW the FOG nozzles place is on the 1 3/4 ONLY…STOP USING IT ON BIGGER LINES AND MASTER STREAMS!
Solid bore has its place with deep seated fires and tradition…
That’s my 2 cents
Fire ENgineering has some excellent articles on drops of water. The authors actually did scientific experiments. The results showed that during an interior attack the drops from a sb actually made it through the fire gases as they fell and cooled the solid burning fuels. The water drops from a fog on a straight stream were smaller than that of a SB and were consumed in the upper gas area and did not make down to the burning solids fuels to stop, stop, stop, stop, the production of more heat/fire gases that kill and will cause the interior to continue to burn. I LIKE BOTH. But, if I am stretching for a interior attack I would prefer a SB backed up by a FOG. If stretching for exterior work would prefer Fog. I can tell a difference between the two when operating inside with high heat conditions. The SB causes less upper steam and gives fast knock dowm. Fog requires the windshield wipers on the mask and heat conditions do rise more so than that of a SB. In the end they both are excellent nozzles if they are flowing more than the BTUs being produced.
@DJ- i fully agree it is the proper use of the given stream that affects the fire and it’s gases.
the new break apart nozzles are the best of both worlds. smooth bore when broken apart and the ability to change to a fog or straight stream with it in tact.
the bad part i see mostly with the fog, on a fog type pattern, is the air movement. moving the super heated gases from top to all around. thankfully we have modern up to date technology that proves the point that wet stuff on the red stuff is what truly works. High GPM overcomes BTU’s plain and simple.
@ Ike- i do also like the SB attack with fog backup, and like DJ noted, with the backup line in place, you can move the back up fog in to fully hydraulically ventilate IF needed (roof ops or fan).
I am sure we all agree too that each has its place on the fire ground, and should Both be trained on for the mastery of our craft.
Great feedback…gotta say, I agree with it all. We used to run 2 pre-connects (1 3/4) one with SB & the other with FOG 50/150 LP. Both were set up at 200 ft. We had orginally went to SB nozzles in the late 90’s because we could get so much more GPM and better stream as opposed to the older FOG nozzles (SB at about 165-175 GPM compared to the old fog at about 96 GPM). Back then it was no a no brainer…like Joel said, GPM puts out BTUs. However, over the last year we made an adjustment & removed the SB off the first out 1 3/4 pre-connect for not only the reason DJ mentioned (ya, the informal tests surpised up too) but just as important, to change the length of one of the pro-connects to 150 ft. The areas we run can often be right on top of each other & managing an additional 50 ft sometimes makes it difficult (removing one of Murphys dominos)….escpecially if you only need 100 ft. So our thought was by changing the length of the pro-connects (like we had them prior to the first change in the late 90’s) & by adding the PONS with LP 150/150 nozzles, we would give ourselves (Fort Walton Bch FD) more versitility….it works for us here but may not be the best for other places. Moral of the story….find out what works best in your area & apply it through training and listing to other who have done it. Also, great point by Chief Ike refering to the FIRE ENGINEERING articles… I like it. I’m on record as saying I’m a SB guy but the 1 3/4 LP Fog works best for us…..although nothing but SB on the 2 1/2 & larger…Like DJ said, its a no brainer. Good stuff!!
ffstoney
We are doing some test, individually, with the flat load. 300-350 ft racked on the pre-connect and you pull what you need then hook into the discharge. This actually possibly could give you your attack line and back up line from the same load, just add nozzle. And if you practice your stretches, you can actually have your 50 at the door with minimal delay. On a triple lay 200 ft you are almost committed to use all 200 even though your longest stretch needed is 100-150 ft. Jasionowski
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